Catalonia

Catalonia

Postby HC. » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Whatever your take on the referendum, police brutality is unacceptable.

Shocking footage over the weekend which Madrid must be made accountable for.
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Re: Catalonia

Postby anders » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:04 pm

Spain doesn't seem to have lost it's dictatorial ways, does it.

Using force to prevent people from expressing their view - I thought those days in Europe were long gone.


...dream on...
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Re: Catalonia

Postby Jambojim52 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:20 pm

Not condoning the violence but it was illegal to hold the referendum. Maybe they should have changed the law before holding the vote.
If they have such a strong backing then surely they can influence national politics and get the rules changed.
They will get Independence some day and should not let this set back stop them from trying to change the law.
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Re: Catalonia

Postby HC. » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:22 pm

Jambojim52 wrote:Not condoning the violence but it was illegal to hold the referendum. Maybe they should have changed the law before holding the vote.
If they have such a strong backing then surely they can influence national politics and get the rules changed.
They will get Independence some day and should not let this set back stop them from trying to change the law.


Nonsense.

So by your logic, the Pankhursts shouldn't have wasted their time throwing themselves in from of horses, instead they should have simply waited until the powers who be decided to give them (women) the vote?

I'd say that your interpretation of the democratic process is at opposite ends of the spectrum to mine, Jim.
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Re: Catalonia

Postby Jambojim52 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:36 pm

HC. wrote:
Jambojim52 wrote:Not condoning the violence but it was illegal to hold the referendum. Maybe they should have changed the law before holding the vote.
If they have such a strong backing then surely they can influence national politics and get the rules changed.
They will get Independence some day and should not let this set back stop them from trying to change the law.


Nonsense.

So by your logic, the Pankhursts shouldn't have wasted their time throwing themselves in from of horses, instead they should have simply waited until the powers who be decided to give them (women) the vote?

I'd say that your interpretation of the democratic process is at opposite ends of the spectrum to mine, Jim.


No just how you read my post ;) They could have and should have changed the law by the democratic process ( as they did here to get the Indy vote through parliament ). To just go ahead and hold a vote that the government in Madrid won't listen to anyway, doesn't get them anywhere. ( this doesn't excuse the violence ) Use the democratic system to get the law changed, then have a legally binding vote .
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Re: Catalonia

Postby Forrest » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:27 am

That can't be the only way to do it, because it relies on the bigger party agreeing to it. What if they never do? The Catalonians are effectively held captive, even if 100% of them want independence.
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Re: Catalonia

Postby Jambojim52 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:21 pm

Forrest wrote:That can't be the only way to do it, because it relies on the bigger party agreeing to it. What if they never do? The Catalonians are effectively held captive, even if 100% of them want independence.


It's the same here Forrest. No matter how many want another referendum Teresa May has said she will not allow it.
Even with the last referendum there were those claiming it was only advisory.
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Re: Catalonia

Postby HC. » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:43 pm

Jambojim52 wrote:
HC. wrote:
Jambojim52 wrote:Not condoning the violence but it was illegal to hold the referendum. Maybe they should have changed the law before holding the vote.
If they have such a strong backing then surely they can influence national politics and get the rules changed.
They will get Independence some day and should not let this set back stop them from trying to change the law.


Nonsense.

So by your logic, the Pankhursts shouldn't have wasted their time throwing themselves in from of horses, instead they should have simply waited until the powers who be decided to give them (women) the vote?

I'd say that your interpretation of the democratic process is at opposite ends of the spectrum to mine, Jim.




No just how you read my post ;) They could have and should have changed the law by the democratic process ( as they did here to get the Indy vote through parliament
). To just go ahead and hold a vote that the government in Madrid won't listen to anyway, doesn't get them anywhere. ( this doesn't excuse the violence ) Use the democratic system to get the law changed, then have a legally binding vote .


Eh?

That's exactly what they're doing; using the democratic process to influence change.
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